White Poppies - Lest We Forget

[mirrorshard]

Again this year, I'm wearing a white poppy rather than a red one.

The white stands for pacifism and peace activism: the idea that, because a great many people die or are injured in wars, or have their livelihoods and families destroyed, we should therefore not have any wars.

This concept, as Chesterton said, has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried.

In the meantime, peace activists around the world will continue to do the things they've always done: drive ambulances, defuse bombs, roll bandages, fly SAR helicopters, drag illegal arms deals into the public eye, expose defence boondoggles, challenge war crimes, work with wounded soldiers, teach communities about each others' lives, and speak truth to power.

Comments

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

I would wear both together, if I could get a white one at the moment (which I can't).

The red poppy is to remember and honour those who suffered as a result of wars, remembering at the same time that the people who did the suffering were overwhelmingly not the people whose idea it was to start a war in the first place. (People who start wars are almost always safe from them, unless, of course, they lose them.) The white poppy is for everything you've just said.

[mirrorshard.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything against the red poppies! I feel white stands for everything the red ones do, and the peace testimony.

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely; but not everyone sees it that way, unfortunately, so I tend to feel it's as well to be completely unambiguous.

I am less outright pacifist than I used to be, largely because I can't honestly see how anything short of war would have stopped Hitler. (You can reason with people who are reasonable, but I'm sure Hitler was insane.) Nonetheless I continue to regard war as the very last resort, to be tried only when every other possible option has demonstrably failed. In an ideal world that wouldn't count as pacifism. In this world, I'm afraid it probably does.

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

I can't honestly see how anything short of war would have stopped Hitler.

Well, the purpose behind establishing the coal and energy organisations which eventually became the EU was to prevent military build-up of a similar kind by economic, rather than military, means, and hopefully to end such wars in Europe. Whatever one thinks of Europe-wide federalism, that is, or was, an explicit anti-war tactic to some degree.

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

That's true, and it's why I tend to be pro-Europe; but it wasn't something one could immediately introduce at the time in order to stop Hitler invading Poland. It probably should have been done in 1918, rather than imposing the punitive sanctions on Germany which were in fact imposed.

[mirrorshard.livejournal.com]

This is yet another fun feature of pacifism: not doing Really Stupid Things which are likely to lead to more war. Such as most anti-terrorism activity.

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

Yup. 100% agreement there...

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Possibly, but there were other substantial political problems with doing that - not least the fact that it's a very difficult measure to predict, and would also still have come across as "punitive" - it does after all equate to external control of a country's natural resources! Additionally, there are other example of dictators all round the world, some of whom quite crazy, so predicting ahead of time which country to keep in check is rather difficult. Most of the time, foreign dictators can be of massive benefit to the governments of other countries, so removing them tends not to be a desirable outcome.

Still, since we're talking about the future and not re-writing the past, I think it's possible to be a bit more hopeful.

I wouldn't describe myself as "pro-Europe", but I'm certainly not anti. Most of the best legislation in the last 3 decades has been as a result of EU directives.

[mirrorshard.livejournal.com]

I'm never keen on getting into WWII-based discussions of pacifism (too many bad experiences with them in the past; also, Godwin's Law) but my general feeling is that one has to draw a distinction between fire-fighting and building-to-last, cf. friend_of_tofu's comment below. On the other hand, I'm also never keen on the assumption that opposing a problem on its own terms is either a) always a good idea or b) the Only Thing To Do, viz. the seductive romance of the TINA mindset.

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

I would tend to agree. If the only way to stop a gigantic tragedy from taking place appears to be to instigate a slightly less gigantic tragedy, that's not exactly something the world as a whole ought to be proud of. :-(

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

TINA?

(Also, you totally read my brane there.)

[mirrorshard.livejournal.com]

There Is No Alternative!

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Ah!

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

The red poppy is to remember and honour those who suffered as a result of wars, remembering at the same time that the people who did the suffering were overwhelmingly not the people whose idea it was to start a war in the first place.

My problem with red poppies is the British Legion's rhetoric around glory and honour, pride and patriotism and so forth - the lies which the people who start wars use to con those who have to do the dirty work.

As mirrorshard said, white poppies stand for remembering the war dead too.

This year I'm not wearing any poppy, mostly because a lot of people take them to mean "I really support this charity", and I don't think the Peace Pledge Union is a particularly good organisation in which to invest my charity budget. I've been looking around for something saying I support Oxfam instead, but they don't seem to be doing anything.

[elettaria.livejournal.com]

My problem with red poppies is the British Legion's rhetoric around glory and honour, pride and patriotism and so forth - the lies which the people who start wars use to con those who have to do the dirty work.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, for instance? Pity you can't fit a nice Wilfred Owen or Siegfried Sassoon poem onto a badge. You could wander around singing the War Requiem, but I don't think people would get the point.

What do you want from Oxfam? My partner is an Oxfam bookshop manager, I can ask him.

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

I'm rather disappointed to note that nobody has asked me about my white poppy yet!

[mirrorshard.livejournal.com]

No, nor me!

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

I need a really, really massive one, I think.

Mind you, A. says he has been asked, and the asker sounded interested.

[prolificdiarist.livejournal.com]

I did point at it and squee though. :D

[mirabehn.livejournal.com]

*grins*

I got glared at in Marlow today by someone who looked at my white poppy and then scowled disapprovingly at me. She didn't say anything though.

[friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com]

Really? Wow, what a massive overreaction.

[mirabehn.livejournal.com]

You are wonderful. :-)

[keira-online.livejournal.com]

Havent seen either the white or purple ones this year. Barely saw anywhere that was doing red ones (still managed to get through 5 as usual).
Idealy I'd wear all of them. But the red one always seems to me to be the "proper" one, I think because of GCSE english drilling into my head about the Fields of Flanders, and then biology looking into the life cycle of the poppy seed (and how trench warfare were perfect conditions), rather than because of any alligence to the meanings behind the different poppies.

It was supposed to be the War to End all Wars. But we didn't learn, we didn't remember. I'm sure Wilfred Owen put it far better.

[hippyjolteon.livejournal.com]

This has been the first year where I've worn a white poppy and I certainly approve of this post. :)